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Ersiusp |
The Boston Tea Party |
Lead | ||
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Ron Paul's goal for 4th quarter fundraising was $12 million, which was made right after midnight last night. On this, the anniversary of an event that
started a revolution, another is taking place. My wife and I donated this morning. I encourage anyone who actually cares about the USA and the ideals it was
founded on, not the warped abuse of powers it has become, to visit http://www.ronpaul2008.com/ and do what you can to help retake our country from the petty tyrants in both parties who only
care about maintaining their power base.
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Afmo |
#1 | |||
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I'm not 100% sold on him yet, but he's definately got a large portion of my support right now...I'm constantly back and forth on RP. I'm
holding on to him as my candidate for now though....
If you saw an old fella eating a twix, you would think, 'thats a bit wierd innit?' |
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Falkahnhan |
#2 | |||
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I'd consider supporting him if his foreign policy weren't so foolish. As the US should have learned in the early 20th century, isolationism doesn't
work.
- Joe
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which grants a right to Congress of
expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
- James Madison
Last Edited By: Falkahnhan 12-16-07 7:58 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Afmo |
#3 | |||
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that's another reason i'm not totally sold on him falk....i've still got some time before the primaries to figure things out....
If you saw an old fella eating a twix, you would think, 'thats a bit wierd innit?' |
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Daconia |
#4 | |||
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As a card carrying Libertarian and a big supporter of Ron Paul in congress over the years it saddens me that Ron Paul is just plain wrong when confronting the
Iraq/Terrorism issue. Members of the LP have split on the issue, I am in the minority somewhere around 30% that thinks the Iraq campaign is a necessity and
that peace is dependent upon America's capability to wage war.
The LP hasn't fielded a candidate yet though a majority support Ron Paul, I will probably be voting AGAINST the larger threat of democratic socialism again. Which unfortunately means supporting republican socialism..... blegh such is the way of reality. |
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Morkenlar |
#5 | |||
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I have to concur with Falk.
I also have to say I think it is hilarious how closely I agree with you, Daconia.
Mork
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul" |
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zeist prexus |
#6 | |||
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How about returning to the gold standard? We could probably have a whole thread on why this isn't the most brilliant idea ever.
First and foremost would be the fact that there isn't enough gold on the entire planet to accomplish this right now. So most likely what would have to happen would be that the dollar would be immediately devalued in terms of gold, which is a gigantic example of what Ron Paul seems to think is wrong with the current monetary system -- the fact that a few people can change the value of currency on a whim. |
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Daconia |
#7 | |||
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I'm not a master of economics Zeist but there are good arguments on both sides of monetary policy. Gold as a finite and reusable resource is a good measure
for monetary standards. Theres enough gold, the measure would be how much gold a dollar of paper money represents. Inflationary pressures on a gold standard
would be easier to recognize if not control than the current representations.
Why many people like Ron Paul argue FOR a "gold standard" is that it is harder to manipulate the money supply (print money) or "ease debt/credit" because the inflationary ratio is easier calculated and seen. I used to believe that the gold standard is better than the amorphous standards we use today, perhaps it is or isn't, truthfully I would have to study the issue further to truly understand it enough to make an informed opinion. The current system has served America well for the past 80 years I would hesitate to change it willy nilly but I could be convinced to study the matter further and perhaps set in motion incremental changes in a direction of greater accountability.
The only proper purpose of
a government is to protect man's rights, which means: to protect
him from physical violence....The only proper functions of a
government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the
army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to
protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others,
and to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective
law.
—Ayn Rand |
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Kayso Gnomehater |
#8 | |||
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I'm excited. After reading that Ron Paul's foreign policy and stand on the "war on terror" were all wrong -- specifically who thinks so --
I'm getting more and more convinced he's right.
It's like being told Justin Timberlake thinks an album is no good -- I can't get to the store fast enough to buy it. |
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Curari |
#9 | |||
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As someone who has never voted for a Democrat presidential candidate, I'll say that at this point RP is the only republican that I'd consider voting
for. I really agree with so much of what he has to say especially his repudiation Bush's foreign policy and the "War on Terrer" (is there a
difference?). It's a shame that he can come off as a "true believer" with the hard core libertarian line: Gold standard, no FDA ( very misguided
imo ), etc that he'll bomb he gets the standard "sound byte" attention from the media. His style of thoughful principled politics won't play
well with the folks who think bumper stickers run on a bit.
Edit: I meant to say that I'll be voting for him in the primary, assuming the republican party in my state hasn't changed its stance on independent voters, becuase I'd really love to see the repbulican party be pulled back to its more tradtional values.
Last Edited By: Curari 12-17-07 12:17 AM.
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Sigfpe Sigkill |
#10 | |||
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i'm all for him.
he's not all for the gold standard. he's for bringing the gold standard back in addition to the current fiat currency system. this way peopl ehave a choice. if they want to use fiat money they can, but if they want to use money backed by gold they can as well. he also wants to remove the sales tax on gold as this is one of the major things prevening people from using gold as currency right now (since every transaction involving gold is taxed a certain amount). he's also not an isolationist by ANY means. he's a non-interventionist. trade with foreign nations is awesome, but billions of dollars worth of military bases overseas in foreign countries is not awesome. i donated today. |
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fatesdefiance |
#11 | |||
Sigfpe Sigkill wrote:We've seen in the past century how both of those are mistakes. Judicious intervention can be desireable and even necessary. An ounce of prevention...
Hunter Tarryn Valewalker -- Twisted Fates
(Prexus - Retired) Nightshade Tarryn Valewalker -- Kingfisher Brigade EQ2 - Unrest Tarryn of Dale, Hunter -- Dies Irae LotRO - Meneldor |
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zeist prexus |
#12 | |||
Inflationary pressures on a gold standard would be easier to recognize if not control than the current representations.How so? How much gold is in Fort Knox? I've heard people claim that there isn't any gold in Fort Knox at all any more and there is really no way to know one way or the other. You could almost as easily change the value of gold by hoarding it, or by saying you're hoarding it or even by saying you're going to hoard it. Or the opposite. Gold as a finite and reusable resource is a good measure for monetary standards.Gold isn't finite for all intents and purposes. People dig it out of the ground daily. Furthermore, most of the people digging it out of the ground aren't doing so in the US. he's not all for the gold standard. he's for bringing the gold standard back in addition to the current fiat currency system.I wasn't aware of this and it's good news. Instead of likely being a disaster it will be more or less a pointless change then. he also wants to remove the sales tax on goldThat's probably not a bad idea. Unless the gold isn't being used as anything like a currency. Which brings up the fact that the gold standard would have a big impact on other industry that uses gold for it's actual demonstrable value rather than some vague intrinsic property agreed upon at some point at the dawn of civilization. |
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creac |
#13 | |||
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An excellent, and simple explanation as to why the Gold Standard doesn't work in a modern economy:
"Beyond the difficulty in transporting, storing, and preventing the debasement of gold, one of the main disadvantages of implementation is that a gold standard would artificially inflate gold's value, increasing the cost of items and industrial processes in which it is used. [3] The total amount of gold that has ever been mined is estimated at about 125,000 tonnes.[4] At the former gold price of around USD $640 per Troy ounce, or around $20,000 per kilogram, the value of this entire planetary stock would be USD $2.5 trillion, which is less than the value of currency circulating. In the U.S. alone, more than $7.3 trillion is in circulation.[5] While there is enough gold to cover the cash circulating in the US (but not the world), proponents of the gold standard expect that money on deposit would also be backed by gold. Under the gold standard, gold mined at a different rate than the economy grows can produce both inflation, when deposits are discovered and extracted, and deflation when they are mined to exhaustion.[6] In practice, the production of gold has usually trailed economic growth, resulting in periods of severe deflationary pressure, including events during the Great Depression.[3] Finally, using a fixed commodity as a monetary standard gives central banks substantially fewer options with which to respond to economic crises and stimulate economic growth.[7]" Courtesy of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard And you can't run both the Gold Standard and fiat currency unless you have two currencies - how many of you want to go into a store and see two prices? Prices that should, realistically, change constantly as the fiat currency moves in value compared to teh Gold Standard currency? Also, for a simple case example of why a floating exchange rate is better than a fixed one, consider my recent post about how Australia suffered minimal economic damage while the rest of south east asia was in meltdown in the late 90's. The floating currency did what it was supposed to do and cushioned the effects and prevented any triggers of meltdowns here. In a global economy, the concept of a fixed currency can only be mainted through artificial means and with an economy the size of the US it is utterly impractical to manage such a thing (not to mention that a failure to manage it correctly at any given moment could cause a collapse). A gold standard works in a simple, closed economy. It fails in complex economies, it fails with any substantial amount of credit creation, it fails when you are trading with other nations using a floating, fiat currency. It is naive at best to think that it will be of any assistance and downright dangerous at worst because anyone acting as a proponent of such a system has no business attempting to have any responsibility for a national economy, let alone the largest in the world. What's this guy's major beef with the current system? That the market sets the price? How American...not. It sounds nothing more than the popular "oh we must have a strong currency because a weaker currency is bad" rubbish that most of the populace (in most countries, not just the US) comes out with because they have no concept of economics or trade. They subscribe to the view that "more is better" even though it was the lower Australian dollar for the past decade that has been a significant factor in our superb rate of growth and economic performance and will underpin structural changes in the US (with the weakened dollar) that will grow your exports and import replacements and ultimiately lead to more, and more sustainable growth in the future (although there may be a rather significant correct - read fall - in the share market but that's not a given despite it being reasonably on the cards). Farwarden Creac Peregrinate
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Sigfpe Sigkill |
#14 | |||
fatesdefiance wrote: I think you have it backwards. I think countries have seen in the last century what a huge mistake it is to attack the US. Look what happened to japan after pearl harbor. Do you think any nation on this planet will want to attack us now especially since we have the most advanced , best trained, and best equipped military ever to walk on this earth? I think non-interventionism is exactly what we need, especially considering the current "interventionist" policy is what is getting us attacked by rogue terrorists who represent no nation and thus do not fear reprisal. edit: removed broken sig. |
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Sigfpe Sigkill |
#15 | |||
creac wrote:his beef with the current system is how the federal reserve (our central bank) is abusing its power to stimulate economic growth by printing too much money out of thin air which automatically devalues the money already in existence. the us government is no longer using it simply as a means to regulate economic factors, but the us government is now using it as an invisible tax on its citizens whenever it needs more money. so yeah a central bank is great for an economy if you can trust it to make good decisions 100% of the time and not be abused by people in power. right now it is being abused by people in power in the US and this is ron paul's beef with it. |
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
#16 | |||
Sigfpe Sigkill wrote: I'd debate the best trained, but we certainly have the most advanced and best equipped military in the world today. We had it September 11th 2001 as
well.
We are all but sailboats on the river of life, and money is the wind. With enough money, you can get blown anywhere - Dennis Miller Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs.
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Sigfpe Sigkill |
#17 | |||
Aielman KajiraLiege wrote: the people behind the 9-11 attacks were not part of any nation. 9-11-2001 also lends even more credence to the argument that we should stay out of the affairs of other nations... especially nations full of radical fundamentalists who have shown they have no fear of murdering innocent people. |
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
#18 | |||
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How do you propose, in this world of globalized industry, that we "stay out" of other countries when we're heaviliy invested in those countries?
The 9/11 attacks were carried out by people from nations that support terrorism either directly or indirectly. So is it your estimation that just because someone does not have an official connection to a government they should be able to act with impunity against our nation? peace, Aielman We are all but sailboats on the river of life, and money is the wind. With enough money, you can get blown anywhere - Dennis Miller Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs.
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Gandol teh Pirate |
#19 | |||
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I read and then re-read what Sigfpe wrote. I don't see how you (Aeilman) can possibly infer from his isolationist viewpoint the notion that the US
doesn't have the right or responsibility to respond to terrorist activities.
Cultural Marxism is a term given to progressives by anti-semitic holocaust deniers who are convinced that Jews are infiltrating the US government for nefarious purposes. |
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
#20 | |||
Gandol teh Pirate wrote:
How do you propose to respond to terrorist activities without entering into the affairs of other nations? peace,
We are all but sailboats on the river of life, and money is the wind. With enough money, you can get blown anywhere - Dennis Miller Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs.
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Kayso Gnomehater |
#21 | |||
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Entering into the affairs of other nations doesn't have to mean invading them.
Preisdent Dipshit and his dark master have done a nice jobs of convincing the American public that we have two choices: Invasion or cowering in the corner and letting terrorists take over the nation and rape Hannah Montana. The reality is that there's billions of options in between that they either just don't see or don't want us to see. |
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Kendien |
#22 | |||
The reality is that there's billions of options in between that they either just don't see or don't want us to see.And in all of those options you'll be 'entering the affairs' of those nations. You really can't have it both ways. |
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
#23 | |||
Kayso Gnomehater wrote: Nor did I say it did.
The reality is that there's billions of options in between that they either just don't see or don't want us to see.And which ones of those don't interfere with other nations, when the terrorists are, in fact, living and operating from other nations? peace, Aielman We are all but sailboats on the river of life, and money is the wind. With enough money, you can get blown anywhere - Dennis Miller Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs.
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Kayso Gnomehater |
#24 | |||
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And in all of those options you'll be 'entering the affairs' of those nations. You really can't have it both ways.
Right which is why it's ridiculous to imply that Ron Paul wouldn't 'enter the affairs' of nations in the absolute literal sense of the word. I'll settle for not excessively entering the affairs of nations. But thanks for the poke at Bush. It's refreshing, as it isn't something you read very often. I guess 1+1=2 is now a 'poke' at numbers? The truth is the truth and nothing more. No matter how many times its been said. In fact, I think we need a fuckton more truth to make sure the Bush voters of 2004 don't go making obviously shitty decisions at the ballot box in the near future. And which ones of those don't interfere with other nations, when the terrorists are, in fact, living and operating from other nations? See above answer to Kendien. He beat you to the punch. :) |
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Borofin |
#25 | |||
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I'm thinking he has 100% of the loon vote and some Dems like to promote him to be a gadfly that can embarrass the Repubs. I guess them, and maybe the young
and naive are the ones giving the cash but I don't know for sure. I've said that I do have a sympathy with his general view of domestic affairs but he
should be immediately gagged when he starts to talk about anything besides that :)
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creac |
#26 | |||
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