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 Borofin |
#101 | |||
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Posts: 3774 07-22-08 12:36 AM Community Member |
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vizco |
#102 | |||
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Posts: 3268 07-22-08 8:36 AM Raid Peon |
A little quick googling indicates that David Evans is a software geek, not a meteorologist, climatologist, or anything else very qualified.
I don't know enough about his "no hot spot" claim to know whether it is true or false. If I find anything out, I'll post it.  Harmony of Souls : My Quiver All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week. |
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Ersiusp |
#103 | |||
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Posts: 2373 07-22-08 1:18 PM 1-900-Santa |
I'm still not convinced man is responsible for any increase in average global temperature, but this is an issue where I feel it's better to err on the
side of caution, within reason. The US by itself will not solve any global environmental problem and we shouldn't have to carry the bulk of the
responsibility. That doesn't mean individuals shouldn't make informed decisions and behave more responsibly, within their means.
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Borofin |
#104 | |||
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Posts: 3774 07-22-08 7:33 PM Community Member |
Ersiusp, the problem is that the definition of "caution, within reason" is seen by the Dems and their envirowhacko allies as an open invitation to be
taken advantage of.
Do you really think limited, unilateral measures will do a fucking thing for the global environment? Of course not. But it will massively changes power and wealth* which is what this is entirely about. This has been elaborated on before so I assume you know what it means. |
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Borofin |
#105 | |||
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Posts: 3774 07-22-08 8:27 PM Community Member |
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Kayso Gnomehater |
#106 | |||
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Posts: 4987 07-22-08 9:56 PM BANNED |
Ersiusp wrote: I'm with you. Even if a person isn't sure, why not take some measures to reduce your consumption of fossil fuels and reduce your greenhouse gas emissions? I may not be 100% convinced that we'll be growing fruit in Antartica in a few decades, but I'm sure as fuck convinced that the skies of most major US cities are disgusting. I'm convinced the water in many places isn't fit, or is barely fit, to drink. So why not take the steps needed to fix these problems that might also help curb global warning? The problem with ideologue assholes is that they ignore the message if they don't like the messenger. Who cares what a bunch of smelly hippies thinks
one way or another? Who cares how many homes worth of power Al Gore uses? Or how he was a baby about the Florida elections?
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Borofin |
#107 | |||
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Posts: 3774 07-22-08 11:29 PM Community Member |
Replace coal plants with nuke plants. Start the process tomorrow. I'm happy to say that a NJ utility recently applied for a permit--the first in decades in
this country. Throw out the Democrat congress and the skids can be smoothed as far as preventing endless lawsuits and other obstacles. Re-elecet them and you
better get used to constant power outages and brownouts in the near future. My prediction is that if the American people don't wise up eventually power
availability and reliability will be better in Iraq one day than here in large parts of America.
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Borofin |
#108 | |||
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Posts: 3774 07-24-08 9:36 AM Community Member |
Coincidentally, an article laying out the numbers has come out and (lent) credence to my prediction above about declining US energy in compared with other
nations, even 3rd world ones.
This really is our final chance. Re-elect the Democratic Congress and Barack Obama and we've had it. Your vote will decide not only your own immediate future but your kids and grandkids.
Last Edited By: Borofin 07-24-08 11:11 AM.
Edited 3 times.
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
#109 | |||
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Posts: 4788 07-24-08 10:31 AM |
Kayso Gnomehater wrote: Basically I agree with that up to the point that we start following false messiahs into ponzi schemes like carbon credits or signing treaties that harm our
economies while allowing exempting the economies of third world countries that have more than a billion polluters and no compunctions against extreme
pollution.
The problem with ideologue assholes is that they ignore the message if they don't like the messenger. Who cares what a bunch of smelly hippies thinks one way or another? Who cares how many homes worth of power Al Gore uses? Or how he was a baby about the Florida elections? The problem with this idea is that quite a few people don't like the messenger for some pretty valid reasons, but still are concerned about the message.
My Daughter (who's 8 ): "What movie is this?"
Me: "Care Bears Go To New York" My daughter: "But I want to watch Wanted" Me - "This is wanted" My Daughter: "But you said it was 'Care Bears Go To New York?!?" My Wife - "C'mon...Daddy would never watch something called Care Bears Go To New York" My Daughter (with conviction): " He would if there were guns in it! " |
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Ididar Tzan |
#110 | |||
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Posts: 2673 07-24-08 10:43 AM |
Borofin wrote:Because the republican congress did a bang-up job of fixing all these issues? |
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Ganders |
#111 | |||
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Posts: 2433 07-24-08 12:16 PM |
Solar is still only one-tenth as efficient as the cheapest fossil fuels. I'm curious - what exactly as that supposed to be saying? Is it just a comparison of the energy in / energy out ratio, or is it something meaningful? I mean, as the sun is effectively a limitless and free resource, does it really matter if you only manage to convert 1% (or whatever figure it is) of solar energy into power? Seems that the meaningful figure is a dollar per MWh, factoring in the small problem of fossil fuels being a finite and continuously more expensive resource.
I support indoctrination in the schools starting at kindergarten promoting homosexual parity and normality, environmental
catastrophism, white guilt, and American unexceptionalism
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 Gandol teh Pirate |
#112 | |||
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Posts: 2576 07-24-08 12:26 PM Time-traveling
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I suppose it depends on your definition of "efficiency." If efficiency is measured as the total energy converted into watts from the original source
then yes, solar is perhaps a mere 10% of the efficiency of coal. But that doesn't really matter if the waste product is sunlight anyway!
The real question is whether solar is competitive with coal on a dollars per kilowatt-hour basis. Currently, it's not there but it's getting closer all the time. And as a recent article in the Economist point out, putting a toll of $30 per ton of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere brings most green technologies into the same price range as coal on dolllars / KWh scale. The $30 fee is not arbitrary; both the US and Europe are inching closer to imposing these structures. For what it's worth, the Economist did a ~24 page special report on the green revolution that's coming. It's one that's based not on good feelings and hippies but instead on entrepreneurs who want a slice of the $3 trillion annual value of the energy sector. Green is becoming competitive.
Zarr's contextualized position on slavery:
For a humorous example, I sold myself as a slave at a charity auction once. I ended up spending the day chopping wood at a farm. It's slavery, but it's far from immoral. |
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Cinabre |
#113 | |||
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Posts: 3167 07-24-08 12:29 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: You mean like Gore and his friends? |
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Cafu07 |
#114 | |||
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Posts: 2131 07-24-08 12:51 PM |
I was doubting global warming, but then I looked into it. I think this is one of the most convincing arguments I've seen
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mF_anaVcCXg It is part of a series from a high school science teacher. It started with this video "How it all ends", then he did a bunch of follow-up videos to take on arguments against his original video. I find the argument he makes from 4:50-7:00 to be compelling. Basically he makes the point that the two most respected science organizations in the world have both made statements calling for action on global warming. As far as I know, none of us are physical scientists, so we are better off listening to opinions of experts. These professional organizations are the closest thing you will ever get to a consensus. |
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Gandol teh Pirate |
#115 | |||
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Posts: 2576 07-24-08 1:16 PM Time-traveling
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Cinabre wrote: Why the snark? Whether you like Gore or not is inconsequential. Oil men such as T. Boone Pickens are also jumping on the energy bandwagon not because
it's the right thing to do, but because there's a lot of money to be made in this particular sector. Making money on new technologies isn't some
crazy idea that just came along; it's the innovative engine that made America great. America led the technological revolution in computers from Silicon
Valley and it expanded into something truly amazing and huge. Energy solutions will dwarf that effort by comparison.
Frankly, I don't really care what Al Gore's motivations are. He's just one of thousands of people in the Vulture Capital world who can see that digging holes in the ground isn't the only way to provide energy to the world, and that means that there's an opportunity to make money in other ways. Maybe he's cynical, maybe he cares, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what he thinks. The green revolution has too many greenbacks at stake for investors to walk away from and the revolution is coming with or without Al Gore as its cheerleader.
Zarr's contextualized position on slavery:
For a humorous example, I sold myself as a slave at a charity auction once. I ended up spending the day chopping wood at a farm. It's slavery, but it's far from immoral. |
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Cinabre |
#116 | |||
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Posts: 3167 07-24-08 1:41 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: The snark is due to having endured years of hearing about how "Bush and his oil buddies" only started a war to get rich (not saying anyone here
has said that, but you've seen it all over the place just as I have). A lot of those same people will gladly line up behind/beside Gore, never once
thinking that part of his motive(s) is to make money. There's not a shred of evidence that Bush has made a single penny from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars,
but plenty to show that Gore is making a killing from his speeches and his carbon trading ventures. To me, that's why Gore is such a hypocrit. If he
wasn't making a penny from this, I might actually cheer him on but I'll be damned if I support someone who is all into "do as I say, not as I
do" as Gore is.
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Gandol teh Pirate |
#117 | |||
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Posts: 2576 07-24-08 1:46 PM Time-traveling
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I don't think anybody here objects to the Afghan war, except that it's been handled with ineptitude.
Has Bush made money on the Iraq war? No idea, but I'll bet the guy with the lowest popularity rating in modern presidential history will be sitting pretty when he does retire and there'll be a fair amount of help coming from industries that will have benefited from America's presence in Iraq. It's a guess, nothing more. And yes, Gore is burning through a lot of electrons and none of us knows why or how. But that's the rub; we don't know whether it's through waste, because he has greenhouses with rare orchids, or what. Just looking at somebody's utility bill is to judge a book by its cover.
Zarr's contextualized position on slavery:
For a humorous example, I sold myself as a slave at a charity auction once. I ended up spending the day chopping wood at a farm. It's slavery, but it's far from immoral. |
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Borofin |
#118 | |||
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Posts: 3774 07-24-08 2:12 PM Community Member |
Ineptitude huh. We began the campaign against the taliban with literally a couple dozen guys on the ground organizing the Northern Alliance and directing air
support. The campaign was among the most brilliant ever conceived in the history of our country, if not ranking up there with other historical examples. The
Soviets were in a quagmire for years and lost with hundrerds of thousands of troops.
That was the war and it liberated the country. What we have now is another insurgency what is what those fuckers have been doing for centuries. Even so, we have defeated them every single battle. The only reason they can do anything is the sanctuary they have and for obvious political reasons we cannot launch an invasion at this time into that area. Our casualties have been amazing low. Especially if you look at the history of other military actions in the area. I would love to hear what your idea of a successful American war is.
Last Edited By: Borofin 07-24-08 2:14 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Ididar Tzan |
#119 | |||
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Posts: 2673 07-24-08 2:20 PM |
Cinabre wrote: The snark is due to having endured years of hearing about how "Bush and his oil buddies" only started a war to get rich (not saying anyone here has said that, but you've seen it all over the place just as I have). A lot of those same people will gladly line up behind/beside Gore, never once thinking that part of his motive(s) is to make money. There's not a shred of evidence that Bush has made a single penny from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, but plenty to show that Gore is making a killing from his speeches and his carbon trading ventures. To me, that's why Gore is such a hypocrit. If he wasn't making a penny from this, I might actually cheer him on but I'll be damned if I support someone who is all into "do as I say, not as I do" as Gore is. I didn't see anyone asking you to support the guy. Who gives a fuck if he's a moron, a hypocrit, or anything else. Personally, I think he's a fucking tool. But, I won't ignore the fact that the energy revolution looks to be a good stimulus to the economy and technology just because one guy is being a massive fucking tool. |
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Gandol teh Pirate |
#120 | |||
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Posts: 2576 07-24-08 4:50 PM Time-traveling
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Borofin wrote: Your sincerity is suspect laughable and you only engage in attack. I won't humor you with the requested response.
Zarr's contextualized position on slavery:
For a humorous example, I sold myself as a slave at a charity auction once. I ended up spending the day chopping wood at a farm. It's slavery, but it's far from immoral. |
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