Vista. Do Not Want.

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vizco	Vista. Do Not Want.		Lead	[-]
Posts: 3188 06-19-08 11:36 AM Raid Peon	Tags : None Yesterday was the last day Dell was selling XP, supposedly. I love (well, love is too strong a word: tolerate) XP, but more importantly, I haven't found anyone around who doesn't hate and despise Vista. The most positive thing I've heard anyone say is "it doesn't such as bad as people think." So, answer me my questions three (nothing about swallows, laden or unladen, follows): 1. Is it still possible to get XP from any major dealers? 2. I've heard rumors of a "downgrade" option (supposedly from Dell or HP) where you can get XP installed but pay for a Vista that you use as a coaster or install to get once a mythical future service pack fixes all its problems. (Essentially MS forcing you to buy Vista, but only reaming you in the wallet by not forcing you to actually use it.) 3. Failing 1 and 2, how bad does Vista really currently suck? Is anyone using it to play games such as EQ or WoW or AoC, and if so, how awful (or good...) is it? What about for software development or for standard Office apps? Harmony of Souls : My Quiver All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week.
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Soygen		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7248 06-19-08 12:34 PM 100% Soybean	It blows for games. There is a pretty major framerate hit in comparison to equal hardware with XP. Other than that, I really like Vista. I have it on my desktop(I play games on my laptop, which I just deleted Vista off and put XP on recently). I'm not givin' you attitude. I just want another drink.
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Feydakin Rainsong		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5232 06-19-08 7:00 PM Wholly Shi'ite	I don't hate and despise Vista. I guess the word that best describes my attitude toward it is "indifferent," which would pretty much sum up my feelings about XP. It's not like the OS is bringing me a beer and giving me a blowjob or anything. "Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression.... is our lives." Have you met Tyler Durden?
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Kendien		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2654 06-19-08 7:26 PM Mera's Master	The Leopard OS from Mac does all that and more, Fey! Just ask Apple.
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Snaille		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 309 06-19-08 7:37 PM	I switched to it after SP1. They fixed some of the largest annoyances with SP1; namely slow file transfers, plus a lot of bugs. I didn't plan on switching, but I wanted to see LOTRO's DX10 features..suck and slow. I switched to DX9 mode and got more consistent frame rates than I did with XP (ATI 3850) so I thought I'd try it for a while...a week later XP was gone from my PC. A few minor tweaks and the OS runs much better and uses a lot less ram, all without sacrificing features except search which depends heavily upon indexing, which I turned off. I haven't seen any drop in FPS, but all I play is LOTRO and The Orange Box so my experience with gaming is limited. Overall, SP1 removes the bulk of the suck and I haven't had any instability, BSOD's or random crashes; my PC runs just as well now as it did with XP.
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sora55		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1192 06-19-08 7:51 PM Froga wake up at the CROAK of dawn	I really don't understand all the Vista hate. I've had my laptop for a year now, and Vista doesn't cause me any problems.
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Seanen		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 422 06-19-08 8:21 PM	The one area where Micro$hit blew it on Vista involves removing Directsound from DX10. That's causing games to suck ass. If you're using a non-Intel proc, I don't even recommend considering Vista. I had too damn many problems trying to get newer games (Bioshock, Crysis (which STILL doesn't run properly)) to run.
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Cinabre		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3088 06-19-08 8:39 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	1. Don't know any major dealers who offer XP, except on some laptops. 2. Downgrade option, afaik, is only available to corporate users. We downgrade our Dell desktops and they are still accepted as under warranty when we call. 3. I haven't tried to run any games on Vista. The systems that I fixed in Iraq that were running Vista really pissed me off. It seems as if MS purposely moved everything from where you would normally find it and put it in some absurd location. Simple tasks like setting IP addresses manually took considerably too long with having to figure out where MS hid it. Once you know, it seems it was moved logically, but damned if I know of a real reason to have moved so much. Guess they had to justify the price somehow /shurg. A disclaimer - the laptops I fixed in Iraq all came with Vista, but were really not the best platforms to run it on. They met the basic requirements, but only barely in most cases. They would have been smoking machines if running XP, but Vista seemed to run like molases on most of them. Can't really blame the OS when the hardware barely meets the standards.
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fatesdefiance		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3216 06-19-08 8:53 PM Community Member	I've been running everything on my AMD processor machine on Vista since it released, . I have had no problems worth mentioning. I took no noticeable framerate hit, nor did I notice any other serious issues in any of the games I've played since that time: LotRO, Medieval 2, Civ 4, Silent Hunter 4, Age of Conan, WAR, GW, EU:Rome, CoD 4, WoW, plus a dozen others I can't recall. Simply, I consider all the bitching and moaning about Vista to be vastly overblown. Either that or I am incredibly lucky with Vista--which would be pretty much the only area of my life such a thing would apply, if true. Hunter Tarryn Valewalker -- Twisted Fates (Prexus - Retired) Nightshade Tarryn Valewalker -- Kingfisher Brigade EQ2 - Unrest Tarryn of Dale, Hunter -- Dies Irae LotRO - Meneldor
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Soygen		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7248 06-19-08 9:38 PM 100% Soybean	Here's some more recent results(XPsp2 vs Vistasp1.) XP is still outperforming it, but not nearly as bad as it was pre-SP1. It was by margins of up to 50% when Vista first released. http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1390&page=2 I'm not givin' you attitude. I just want another drink.
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Cinabre		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3088 06-19-08 9:48 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	Good link Soy. Thanks for passing it along.
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Gandol teh Pirate		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2538 06-19-08 10:59 PM Time-traveling cultural Marxist	And FWIW, XP with SP3 picked up more performance over SP2 while Vista's SP1 was a performance wash. Zarr's contextualized position on slavery: For a humorous example, I sold myself as a slave at a charity auction once. I ended up spending the day chopping wood at a farm. It's slavery, but it's far from immoral.
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Ididar Tzan		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2649 06-20-08 7:33 AM	Dell laptop with Vista and haven't had a problem since I got the thing. Took me a couple weeks to get used to certain things but overall I find the thing easy to use with few bugs. Mind you, I'm not gaming on the thing I'm only browsing the web, doing some photoshop, CAD, email, and so forth. Nothing too intensive. But, not a single hitch. I guess the biggest anti-vista push is from the gaming community since they want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the hardware they can. Then again, gaming has complained about every release of windows except the move from ME ... because ME sucked the hard one. Heck, I remember the bitching and moaning when DOS went kaput because people screamed games would be terribly slow now having to run on top of windows instead of running in DOS. Heh.
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Federiko EQ		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3344 06-20-08 9:01 AM You can never have too many shoes. - Celine Dion	Dell laptop and desktop with Vista and the only problems I've run into were having to disable the UAC in order to run my Postgre SQL db. It would not install without it being removed and re-enabling after installation was causing issues with the import of poker hand histories. I just keep it off now. I also have some minor complaints about the Windows Explorer layout but most of that has been fixed by using the classic theme. Dell didn't give me an option for XP on either machine.
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vizco		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3188 06-20-08 1:38 PM Raid Peon	Thanks for all the feedback. Unless I can buy a new machine through work it sounds like I'll be stuck with Vista, but it seems like it's not as big a downgrade as I feared. Harmony of Souls : My Quiver All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week.
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Cafu07		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2067 06-20-08 1:47 PM	You could always build your own machine and buy an OEM copy of XP from newegg. Building your own computer barely qualifies as 'building' anymore since almost everything comes on the motherboard these days. You could pick one of the builds on the TechReport's buying guide as a baseline and they even have links to buy the parts. That said, Vista is past SP1 so you might as well go for it. I'm not using it yet, but what others are saying in this thread is what I am hearing too: it's pretty stable these days. I've even heard several people comment that if you want to go 64 bit, you're better off with Vista than XP. Also, I'm not sure where the Dell love comes from in this thread. I think Dell is the last place I'd buy a desktop PC. They are famous for bait-and-switch sales tactics and incredibly shitty support. Last Edited By: Cafu07 06-20-08 1:50 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Ididar Tzan		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2649 06-20-08 2:15 PM	I'd never buy a desktop already built. Well, I would, but only so long as I can configure every component myself and just pay them $50 to put the thing together and ship it. Buying a desktop from Dell or anyone else like that is for people who aren't at all computer savvy. Laptops, on the other hand, you're pretty much stuck ... which is why I got mine from Dell. Had the features I wanted and I got a decently good deal. As for Vista ... yeah, nowhere near what it might have been from day one and some of the beefs with Vista were misunderstandings and exagerationgs. For one, the complaint about Vista being slower copying files turned out to be Microsoft admitting that XP was actually lying to you about when the file transfer was completed. Funny, but you can see how Vista got a bad reputation.
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Snaille		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 309 06-20-08 3:31 PM	Ididar Tzan wrote: For one, the complaint about Vista being slower copying files turned out to be Microsoft admitting that XP was actually lying to you about when the file transfer was completed. Nope. I read that too, and laughed. Transferring large directories (10+GB) took a lot longer in Vista pre SP1 than XP ever did...by tens of minutes, the XP machine's hard drive went silent long before Vista was even close to finished.
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vizco		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3188 06-20-08 4:17 PM Raid Peon	Also, I'm not sure where the Dell love comes from in this thread. No one loves Dell, but if you want a prebuilt machine there aren't that many good places to get them. What are the alternatives if you don't want to build your own, for a reasonable price? HP? Who else? (Not being snarky here, those are what comes to mind.) Hard-core gamers are a different story, of course; I noticed on Dell's site that they have "gaming" machines with factory overclocks and other such fun stuff, so even hard-core gamers who don't feel that tech-savvy can get something that looks reasonably hot. Quad-core dual video card etc. Laptops, on the other hand, you're pretty much stuck ... which is why I got mine from Dell. That's how I feel as well. My work machine is a Latitude and they're pretty reasonable. Amusingly enough, the "downgrade" offer exists for the Dell XPS "gaming" machines, not just corporate purchasers. Aren't they still trying to figure out what to do with XPS versus Alienware? Harmony of Souls : My Quiver All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week.
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zeist prexus		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1234 06-20-08 5:28 PM	Lenovo aren't usually a bad pricepoint if you look at the cheaper models. Toshiba aren't terrible either. And occasionally you'll even see a Sony on sale pretty cheap. Pretty much any company that makes notebooks has a low-end offering nowadays. I guess Apple doesn't. For my next laptop, I think I'm going to wait a while and see what comes with the Intel Atom. They are already out on ITX boards but I haven't seen any of the Atom Centrino notebooks they've been talking about yet. It sounds rather promising though if you're not shopping for a desktop replacement notebook. I'm hoping they build it around a chipset that isn't old as hell and that they use a better IGP than the GMA950. Zeist
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creac		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2170 06-20-08 6:42 PM Mortal Wombat Administrator	Vista 64 Ultimate SP1 here. I waited for SP1 (well, just before) and it's great. It's very stable, fast (Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz with 8GB of RAM etc etc) and effective. No problems. Runs EQ and multiple instances of it just fine. Vista Media Centre functionality is also very good. It's probably true there's a frame rate drop for some games, but then there are people who worry about losing 10 FPS from 100 to 90. I'm sure that's a legitimate concern for those gamers, but not for me (and not when I run LCDs since they only accept a 60Hz input anyway). If you have decent hardware, I'd go with Vista np. "But if the while I think on thee, dear friend, All losses are restored and sorrows end."
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vizco		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3188 06-20-08 9:26 PM Raid Peon	8GB of RAM Ouch. What did that cost you extra? Harmony of Souls : My Quiver All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week.
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Snaille		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 309 06-21-08 12:13 AM	vizco wrote: 8GB of RAM Ouch. What did that cost you extra? $200ish, USD. RAM is cheap these days.
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Federiko EQ		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3344 06-21-08 11:02 AM You can never have too many shoes. - Celine Dion	vizco wrote: Amusingly enough, the "downgrade" offer exists for the Dell XPS "gaming" machines, not just corporate purchasers. Aren't they still trying to figure out what to do with XPS versus Alienware? I think they're going to be forced to scrap the super high end XPS systems, otherwise what was the point in buying Alienware? I have an m1330 and a XPS 420 and I doubt those lines are going away. They're not really "gaming" machines though.
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Cinabre		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3088 06-21-08 1:12 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	You could pay me to buy an Alienware now that they are owned by Dell. Then again, I haven't bought a pre-built system in about 10 years (not counting work).
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Galidin		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 925 06-21-08 2:36 PM	I switched to vista and honestly in some things it's much faster in some things its slower but it's bareable on a Quad 6600 with 4 gig ram and fast HD. Galidin
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creac		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2170 06-21-08 7:47 PM Mortal Wombat Administrator	Yeah 8GB of RAM isn't expensive. USD200- to USD250- is about right and it's Corsair CL5 with a lifetime warranty etc. With a 64bit OS and using Photoshop in particular it's very useful - even more so when PS goes 64bit for Windows in the next release. "But if the while I think on thee, dear friend, All losses are restored and sorrows end."
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Cinabre		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3088 06-21-08 8:46 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	creac wrote: With a 64bit OS and using Photoshop in particular it's very useful - even more so when PS goes 64bit for Windows in the next release. PS is a memory pig. I don't think there is ever a point when you could have too much memory for it.
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creac

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Vista. Do Not Want.

Vista. Do Not Want.