Ididar Tzan wrote:

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Shrieek wrote:

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This is retarded. I know I'm not saying that. I'm saying small children benefit by having their mom at home to care for them before they are old enough for school. When they come of age, the men take over (especially with boys). Men teach their child to be men. Those losers who don't pay child support etc etc - I'll bet you the statistics are strong in favour of them being raised by a single mom. They never learned how to be a man so how can they be one?

Small children benefit from having a parent at home to care for them before they go to school. Studies haven't proven that a mother or father is particularly the "best" simply by being male or female. Yes, the proportion of men who're better at raising young kids is probably lower than women but that isn't necessarily as biological as it is cultural. Buddy of mine has neighbors where the man has stayed home with the kids from day one. She's a lawyer, he did manual labour. Easy decision. Kids are doing fine.

As for "learning how to be a man" ... that all depends what you consider the necessities of "being a man". This is a cultural phenomena and not even consistent within the larger national culture but dependent on each family and how they've lived their lives. Many men I know think that you're "not a man" unless you can strip down an engine and put it back together ... others feel it relates to hunting ... others feel it relates to being physically strong. My father was an accountant who hunted but didn't really feel it was necessary to teach me and isn't physically strong himself. I, on the other hand, became an engineer that works fairly hands-on and bombs around the woods on a mountain bike in my spare time. We are far different individuals. Which of us is a "real man"? Him because he hunts and goes fishing occasionally or me because I'm more mechanical and do a lot more physical things like running, biking, etc?

I challenge anyone to come up with a set of criteria that makes anyone a "real man" that many on this board wouldn't meet and even more outside this board would laugh at as either too wimpy or too strict.

I've always set the criteria that if society fails you can still continue to survive.

Ididar Tzan wrote:

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Shrieek wrote:

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I've always set the criteria that if society fails you can still continue to survive.

You wake up way out of civilization and you have the knowledge and ability to support yourself and your family. At least then you know that no matter what happens you will be okay. For example: half the population is out of work, begging on the street for food, water, etc. You can take a hike away from it all and live like the Natives did hundreds of years ago. Make a canoe, bow and arrows, traps, clothes, shelter and have enough herb knowledge to stay healthy.

It's not a feeling - it's logical knowledge that you are going to continue to survive regardless of what happens to society.

Its logical knowledge based on what you feel is the proper criteria. You came up with the criteria based on your upbringing. Who says that's the right criteria? You? Your family? Your community? As others have pointed out, if everyone had to learn all that stuff we certainly wouldn't have the society we have today. And, by your criteria, most men haven't been "men" for a good 75 years. But, as you even pointed out, you're setting the bar back to the 1600's and judging everything since then has been downhill. Although, ironically, making that arguement on the internet.

It's logical knowledge based on that's how people survived from the beginning. There are no feelings involved. We all survive right now based on the fact that someone wants or needs something from us and trades something that we need or want for it. If you have the ability to neither need or want from someone else, you are a real man. That makes no one in control of your existence. I should change the term though. Real Man = survivor/provider. We were made larger and stronger for that purpose. Slowly we are losing that purpose to the rent-a-tribe called society.

Now to bring us back to the current day: having that confidence and knowledge this day and age puts you up above most others because you have less to be afraid of and go about your regular life not worrying about what others do or think.

Not quite irony on the internet thing though. I do find it funny - but would you like to see me try to send this post via smoke signals? I don't think they'll reach you :)