A quick time warp....

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Cinabre	A quick time warp....		Lead	[-]
Posts: 2867 05-21-08 6:54 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	Tags : None A few months ago, the following was posted by Vydas: Don't get me wrong, I'm a Democrat who once actively worked on a McCain campaign. As it stands right now, I have no idea how extreme he is, except that he's an extreme courter of anyone center on right. He does seem to shift in the wind, and that's not something I find appealing (along with is temper) in a potential leader. I remember that today when I was reading about Obama's temper problems while in the Illinois senate. The following is from Obama: From Promise To Power, on page 125-126: Hendon has never been shy about holding back his feelings, and he had a special way of penetrating Obama's usually smooth exterior. Soon, the two men were shouting at each other on the senate floor. They took their disagreement into a nearby room, and a witness said that Obama had to be physically restrained. Neither man cares to discuss the incident today, I'm not brining this up now as a "gotcha" moment. I mention it only as it seems to have been glossed over by the media that seems to be giving Obama's record in Illinois a huge pass. I expect more of these revelations to start coming out soon. Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway.
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Cafu07		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1834 05-21-08 7:48 PM	I think most of us are aware that McCain is known to have a very bad temper. There are probably dozens of instances that could be brought up here. So far, it hasn't become much of an issue on these forums nor in the media. Is that what your post is meant to inspire? A tit-for-tat listing of every moment John McCain has lost his temper? Personally, I don't see the point. Most of us know how to use google and I'm sure that information would be easy to look up if one feels that is important in determining their choice for president. So, why are you posting this? Is this instance of Obama losing his temper important to you? What does it say to you about his character or his ability to be a leader? Please explain.
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Cinabre		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2867 05-21-08 8:19 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	Wow, did you just not read my last paragraph Cafu? Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway.
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Borofin		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3070 05-21-08 10:40 PM Community Member	The media would gloss over problems with Obama? Say it aint so! I wonder if there is a video of the shouting match on the floor or has it already fell down the Chicago rathole never to be seen again. Lan astaslem
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Curari		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 664 05-21-08 10:44 PM	Why don't you answer Cafu?
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Muerta		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2547 05-21-08 11:59 PM Legend in the making... Oh and quite modest	When Democrats get mad, we just look cute and people pat us on the head. When Republicans get mad, it makes the news because they are not suppose to show emotion because we also just assumed that they never have any. Arianna Huffington (on McCain and Iraq): It's his Viagra. Steven Colbert: I guess then the warning label should be, if your erection lasts more than 100 years, pull out!
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Cafu07		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1834 05-22-08 1:15 AM	Cinabre wrote: Wow, did you just not read my last paragraph Cafu? Your disclaimer? I read it. I'm just unsure why you think that the media not making an issue out of the few times Obama might have lost his temper is a sign of bias when they aren't making an issue out of it for McCain either, especially when he's famous for losing his temper. One could make a credible argument that McCain is so prone to flipping out that it is a serious problem that should be taken into consideration when discussing his fitness for the presidency. But you want to make it an issue for Obama? It really makes no sense to me. Perhaps you can explain. What's next? Are you going to make the argument that Obama is too old to be president? Last Edited By: Cafu07 05-22-08 1:17 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Ersiusp		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2258 05-22-08 9:32 AM 1-900-Santa	McCain's temper isn't an issue for me. Obama's, which seems to be less than McCain's, is even less.
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Aielman KajiraLiege		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4556 05-22-08 10:38 AM	Cafu07 wrote: I think most of us are aware that McCain is known to have a very bad temper. There are probably dozens of instances that could be brought up here. So far, it hasn't become much of an issue on these forums nor in the media. That'll change for both men in the general election. Moveon and the other Soros groups will start hammering McCain in national ads as soon as the DNC is over. Obama has mostly had a pass because the GOP doesn't want to unleash until closer to the election so it's fresher in voters minds, and because there's no point in spending campaign money when you don't have to. Obama has had mostly softball digs at him that originated from the Clinton team for the most part, so it will be interesting to see how he reacts when they really start taking shots at he and his wife. If the reports of his temper are true, I expect we'll see blow-ups from both men in the coming half year. I'm just unsure why you think that the media not making an issue out of the few times Obama might have lost his temper is a sign of bias when they aren't making an issue out of it for McCain either, especially when he's famous for losing his temper. Um...they have made an issue of it. Else he wouldn't be "famous" for it. peace, Aielman "There are no stupid questions...but there certainly are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs. aka Bret
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Aielman KajiraLiege		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4556 05-22-08 10:39 AM	oops "There are no stupid questions...but there certainly are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs. aka Bret Last Edited By: Aielman KajiraLiege 05-22-08 10:49 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Cafu07		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1834 05-22-08 11:13 AM	Aielman KajiraLiege wrote: That'll change for both men in the general election. Moveon and the other Soros groups will start hammering McCain in national ads as soon as the DNC is over. Obama has mostly had a pass because the GOP doesn't want to unleash until closer to the election so it's fresher in voters minds, and because there's no point in spending campaign money when you don't have to. Let's be fair and point out that Obama has spoken out against 527s more than any other candidate since they have existed. He is trying his best to get people to ignore pro-Obama 527s and send their money directly to his campaign. Every candidate speaks out against 527s, then disingenuously throws their hands up and says "What can I do? I don't support them but I can't stop them." Obama actually seems to be doing more than that. Aielman KajiraLiege wrote: Um...they have made an issue of it. Else he wouldn't be "famous" for it. As I'm sure you know, there's a difference between reporting the news and making an issue. McCain has a known probelm with his temper. I have yet to see it made into an issue during this campaign. edit: let me add a disclaimer of my own here. I do think McCain's temper is worthy of discussion, and I think it eventually will come up. But there are so many reasons McCain will be a horrible president that I think it's still pretty far down on the list at this point. Last Edited By: Cafu07 05-22-08 11:18 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Aielman KajiraLiege		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4556 05-22-08 11:52 AM	Cafu07 wrote: Let's be fair and point out that Obama has spoken out against 527s more than any other candidate since they have existed. He is trying his best to get people to ignore pro-Obama 527s and send their money directly to his campaign. Every candidate speaks out against 527s, then disingenuously throws their hands up and says "What can I do? I don't support them but I can't stop them." Obama actually seems to be doing more than that. Um...let's be fair and mention the fact that I made no inference whatsoever that Obama had fuck all to do with any 527s. His stance will have nothing to do with how much Moveon et al rip on McCain, nor will anyone elses stance have any affect on how much Obama get's nailed by GOP/McCain supportive 527s. As I'm sure you know, there's a difference between reporting the news and making an issue. In an election year? The hell there is. peace, Aielman "There are no stupid questions...but there certainly are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs. aka Bret
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Fishbeak		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2269 05-22-08 12:05 PM	I don't get the point of this thread. Are McCain supporters really wanting to argue who has the worse temper? Really? Or are you just saying "See Obama gets mad too". What's the point? Borofin's bitch
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Kayso Gnomehater		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4422 05-22-08 12:18 PM BANNED email Brad for details	The point is to take the focus off McCain's wrong-minded policies on Iraq and the economy and the GOP's horrible track record over the last eight years.
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Fishbeak		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2269 05-22-08 12:20 PM	Wait a minute. That can't be it. Just a couple days ago Cin was complaining that he wants to talk about issues but those damn leftists wont talk issues. Besides this is one non-issue where McCain is gonna lose. Badly. Stick to flag pins guys. Borofin's bitch
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Cafu07		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1834 05-22-08 12:27 PM	Aielman KajiraLiege wrote: His stance will have nothing to do with how much Moveon et al rip on McCain, nor will anyone elses stance have any affect on how much Obama get's nailed by GOP/McCain supportive 527s. I disagree. I think much more can be done to disavow and criticize the actions of 527 groups than has been done in the past by previous candidates. I do think criticism of past candidates needs to be tempered somewhat with the acknowledgment that 527 groups were new to the political scene, but I really haven't seen many candidates actively try to thwart groups attacking opponents on thier behalf. Obama says he will. We shall see if it's all just talk or to what extent he is actually able to thwart the attacks.
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Klark		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 778 05-22-08 12:29 PM	Cinabre wrote: I'm not brining this up now as a "gotcha" moment. I mention it only as it seems to have been glossed over by the media that seems to be giving Obama's record in Illinois a huge pass. I expect more of these revelations to start coming out soon. As all ready said, the media does not have a vested interest in showing that side of Obama. I'm not sure if the Republicans would want to show that side either. Showing a more aggressive, masculine Obama may only serve to help his image. Right now some people have tried to paint an elitist, cold oratory side of Obama in order to distant him from the American people. It sounds like the Republicans would take the "smooth exterior" and run the opposite way -= he's cold, calculating, and does not have an emotional link to things he talks about. A fight may only humanise him.
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Gandol teh Pirate		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2252 05-22-08 12:31 PM Time-traveling cultural Marxist	He already seems pretty human. I think the GOP's best chance is to run on the platform that's won them the previous 2 elections, no? Zarr's contextualized position on slavery: For a humorous example, I sold myself as a slave at a charity auction once. I ended up spending the day chopping wood at a farm. It's slavery, but it's far from immoral.
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Kayso Gnomehater		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4422 05-22-08 12:41 PM BANNED email Brad for details	Cafu07 wrote: Aielman KajiraLiege wrote: His stance will have nothing to do with how much Moveon et al rip on McCain, nor will anyone elses stance have any affect on how much Obama get's nailed by GOP/McCain supportive 527s. I disagree. I think much more can be done to disavow and criticize the actions of 527 groups than has been done in the past by previous candidates. I do think criticism of past candidates needs to be tempered somewhat with the acknowledgment that 527 groups were new to the political scene, but I really haven't seen many candidates actively try to thwart groups attacking opponents on thier behalf. Obama says he will. We shall see if it's all just talk or to what extent he is actually able to thwart the attacks. I think it depends on the content. Saying something that's true, but in a mean-spirited way, shouldn't automatically require a rebuff from Obama imo. Like I do think McCain's age is a factor, so ads that show he's old, even in an unflattering way, are fair enough imo. Would depend on the content.
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Cinabre		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2867 05-22-08 12:43 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb	Fishbeak wrote: Wait a minute. That can't be it. Just a couple days ago Cin was complaining that he wants to talk about issues but those damn leftists wont talk issues. Besides this is one non-issue where McCain is gonna lose. Badly. Stick to flag pins guys. Are you just not reading what I'm writing these days Fish? Please point to my post where I said damn leftists. I rarely use derogatory terms like that so if that's what you got from reading my post it would seem you are the one with a problem. To save you the time, what I wrote was: I have posted quite a few times about Obama's policies and what I think of them. When I do so, rather than get a response that compares them to either Hillary or McCain, I normally just get something along the lines of "at least he's better than or not George Bush". If that's all he's got to run on, why bother bringing up his proposed policies again? Cafu read that and give me a rare compliment (at least I took it that way). Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway.
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Zifnab		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2603 05-22-08 12:48 PM	The point is to take the focus off McCain's wrong-minded policies on Iraq Kayso. What is your stance on Iraq? How would you proceed from here?
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Kayso Gnomehater		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4422 05-22-08 1:37 PM BANNED email Brad for details	Kayso. What is your stance on Iraq? How would you proceed from here? In short, pack the fuck up and get the fuck out -- military and civilians. And let them know that no matter which warlord or mullah seizes power, if they piss us off we'll be back to topple their pissant government too. There are two fundamental flaws with this entire operation. The first is thinking we can make them into us. You can't facilitate cultural change like that, when they're ready they'll change. Until then, they'll smack things with their smelly shoes and kill each other while yelling lululululululululu because that's what they do. It would be like expecting Americans to stop eating shitty fast food to the point of obesity or buying shoddy goods they don't need from the local Wal Mart. In a span of a few years, it just isn't going to happen. The second flaw is this fascist (and i mean it in the technical sense of the word) neocon philosophy that corporations have to make a buck off everything the government is involved in. For all the money we've flushed down that shithole so that Halliburton, Parsons, etc can profiteer, we could have repeated the first month of the war how many times over? Pack up. Get out. Now. Every soldier should be either packing or protecting American assets as we pack and move out. And unless the civilian contractors want to make Al Jazeera the hard way, they better stay one step ahead of us -- those assholes have suckled at the tax payer's teet to the point of being fat enough. Ween them now.
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Fishbeak		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2269 07-05-23 3:11 PM	You're right Cin. I put in the leftist comment. Other than that I stand by my post. You didn't answer my question though. What's your point? You're the one who wanted a discussion of issues, or so you posted. Is this what you consider an issue? Do you really want to contrast Obama's temper with McCain's? Borofin's bitch
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Zifnab		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2603 05-22-08 3:21 PM	In short, pack the fuck up and get the fuck out -- military and civilians I think we have a moral obligation to fix what we broke. By packing it up and leaving now you're going to destablize the entire region. The big winner in a US pullout is Iran. At least until Israel nukes them.
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Kayso Gnomehater		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4422 05-22-08 8:11 PM BANNED email Brad for details	The person who fucks something up isn't automatically the best person to fix it. Had it been one of your daughters who had flooded your basement, you wouldn't have her repair it on principle. We fucked it up. We're the wrong people to fix it -- especially when our definition of "fix" is impossible. Sometimes you say "sorry, my bad" and you leave the mess for someone else. I agree the region is going to be destabilized. I agree we're going to end up helping Iran at the expense of our national interests. I agree that's all bad. But the fact that it's bad doesn't make it avoidable.
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fatesdefiance		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3065 05-22-08 8:38 PM Community Member	Hmm. Losing is unavoidable in Iraq, so we need to give up...thus ensuring we lose. Circular logic is certainly one way to back up your own point. Hunter Tarryn Valewalker -- Twisted Fates (Prexus - Retired) Nightshade Tarryn Valewalker -- Kingfisher Brigade EQ2 - Unrest Tarryn of Dale, Hunter -- Dies Irae LotRO - Meneldor
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Fishbeak		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2269 05-22-08 9:00 PM	Hmm. Losing is unavoidable in Iraq, so we need to give up...thus ensuring we lose. We won the war in Iraq. Now it's a question of how we conduct the occupation. Borofin's bitch
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fatesdefiance		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3065 05-22-08 9:21 PM Community Member	Fishbeak wrote: We won the war in Iraq. Now it's a question of how we conduct the occupation. Semantics. You know what I mean. I do not ascribe to Kayso's position that utter failure in Iraq is a foregone conclusion...particularly in light of the events of the past year. Hunter Tarryn Valewalker -- Twisted Fates (Prexus - Retired) Nightshade Tarryn Valewalker -- Kingfisher Brigade EQ2 - Unrest Tarryn of Dale, Hunter -- Dies Irae LotRO - Meneldor
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A quick time warp....

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