Gas Tax holiday

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Cafu07

Gas Tax holiday

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Posts: 1869

05-02-08 7:11 PM

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Both McCain and Clinton support a lifting of the federal gas tax for this summer. Obama opposes it.

I agree with Obama's position that the gas tax holiday is a political gimmick that will have almost no effect on the lives of most Americans. I also think it's kind of stupid to cut government funding when we are so far in debt already.

What do YOU think about the gas tax holiday.

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Kayso Gnomehater

#1

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05-02-08 7:18 PM

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It's rewarding the red state morons for their bad choices over the last eight years.

I want to see all the suburban and rural yokels who needed that Excursion to hang all their flag stickers and yellow ribbons on take it hard in the ass. I hope gas doubles.

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Afmo

#2

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Posts: 2327

05-02-08 7:37 PM

Properly Equipped

feel-good measure...nothing more...

Operation Self Defense

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Fishbeak

#3

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Posts: 2331

05-02-08 7:42 PM

It's pandering at it's finest.

Oh and heard tonight that the DoT says it will cost 300,000 jobs due to construction projects that will have to be canceled.

Borofin's bitch

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Blackedward

#4

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Posts: 2384

05-02-08 8:30 PM

Agreed.
"Go buy cheap gas...for a while."
This could be a costly short-term Band-Aid.
-Ed

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Physic FormerlyHasRez

#5

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Posts: 1430

05-02-08 8:39 PM

>What do YOU think about the gas tax holiday.

depends where you're at. kayso's red state folks may not have substantial gas taxes. in fact, fuel prices in southern illinois are a hell of a lot lower than they are in blue strongholds like chicago, new york, and los angles.

reality is there is some benefit, but the odds have it other democratic strongholds, like cook county would just up their gas taxes to gouge the residents that much more.

given the multiple layers of excise taxes applied to fuel which in blue state areas include federal, state, county, and municipal taxes you'd really need all 4 levels to back down to have a impact.

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Afmo

#6

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05-02-08 9:22 PM

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depends where you're at. kayso's red state folks may not have substantial gas taxes. in fact, fuel prices in southern illinois are a hell of a lot lower than they are in blue strongholds like chicago, new york, and los angles.

i think they're only talking about a federal gas tax holiday...which is 18ish cents a gallon or so (i could be wrong, correct me if i am...)

Operation Self Defense

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Physic FormerlyHasRez

#7

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Posts: 1430

05-03-08 12:41 AM

>i think they're only talking about a federal gas tax holiday.

i would hope so since that's the only thing the three senators could actually impact. given the amazing amount of taxes a blue stronghold look cook county (chicago) has added in terms of consumption taxes, i'm assuming any federal relief would quickly be offset by raises in local level taxes.

is $0.18/gallon significant? depends on how much you need to drive. my 8 mile commute won't show much of a result. a lot of people with hour long commutes will probably see some kinda relief. this isn't exactly a novel idea on the part of mccain the same concept was throw about last year.

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Aielman KajiraLiege

#8

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Posts: 4606

05-03-08 8:00 AM

I think it's probably a bad idea if you are looking for relief for individuals, even though I'm one of those yokels driving an expedition that I don't have a single flag on, but I haul my 2 kids, 70lb dog, the backpack per person that seems to go everywhere we go, the crutches, the wheelchair, the leg extender and my invalid wife.

It's probably less bad of an idea if you take into consideration the relief it will bring to businesses. Eighteen cents a gallon can translate into alot of cash if you are maintaining fleet vehicles.

The question then becomes, does that good for businesses offset the potential loss of tax revenue for 3 months, necessary for highway construction, which is where the lion share of those funds go.

Oh and heard tonight that the DoT says it will cost 300,000 jobs due to construction projects that will have to be canceled.

Only if they want it to Fish. You're only talking about a 3 month, at maximum, cut. That isn't going to necessitate that much cutting by the DOT. All they will have to do is postpone a few projects by a couple of months, if that. And that's only if they don't shift some capital funds from some other categorical budget.

peace,
Aielman

"There are no stupid questions...but there certainly are a LOT of inquisitive idiots"

Husband, Father, Squisher of bugs.
aka Bret

Last Edited By: Aielman KajiraLiege 05-03-08 8:03 AM. Edited 2 times.

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Morkenlar

#9

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Posts: 1891

05-03-08 8:15 AM

It's a short term gimmick. I feel dirty saying it, but Obama is right on this issue - removing the federal tax, temporarily, doesn't help, and will likely cause harm.

Mork

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul"

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Federiko EQ

#10

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Posts: 3288

05-03-08 10:40 AM

You can never have too
many shoes. - Celine Dion

An .18 cents/gal savings over a 3 month period will save me a whopping $15. I don't give a shit about any tax holiday.

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Soygen

#11

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Posts: 7112

05-03-08 10:43 AM

100% Soybean

It would save me 35 bucks about. Whatever.

I'm not givin' you attitude. I just want another drink.

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zeist prexus

#12

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Posts: 1198

05-03-08 11:20 AM

Oh and heard tonight that the DoT says it will cost 300,000 jobs due to construction projects that will have to be canceled.

I thought it was stupid until that part. Now I'm thinking maybe it's a good idea.

Zeist

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vizco

#13

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Posts: 3040

05-03-08 11:41 AM

Raid Peon

Stupid idea, but of course that's what politicians are for.

I'm actually impressed that Obama is against it; good for him.

Harmony of Souls : My Quiver
All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week.

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Cafu07

#14

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05-03-08 12:16 PM

Morkenlar wrote:
It's a short term gimmick. I feel dirty saying it, but Obama is right on this issue - removing the federal tax, temporarily, doesn't help, and will likely cause harm.

We seem to have close to a consensus in this thread. Maybe it has less to do with Obama being right and more to do with Obama being honest.

One other thing: if they drop the 18 cent per gallon tax, how do we know the gas stations aren't just going to raise their prices by another 18 cents? This thing could turn into a federal handout to the oil companies.

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Afmo

#15

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Posts: 2327

05-03-08 2:07 PM

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Cafu07 wrote:

Morkenlar wrote:
It's a short term gimmick. I feel dirty saying it, but Obama is right on this issue - removing the federal tax, temporarily, doesn't help, and will likely cause harm.

We seem to have close to a consensus in this thread. Maybe it has less to do with Obama being right and more to do with Obama being honest.
One other thing: if they drop the 18 cent per gallon tax, how do we know the gas stations aren't just going to raise their prices by another 18 cents? This thing could turn into a federal handout to the oil companies.

I thought of that too...whats to guarantee that the stations will lower the price by the 18 cents or whatever...just leave the price where it is and take the extra profit....its a stupid idea all the way around...and its one of the very few things i agree with Obama on...

Operation Self Defense

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Cinabre

#16

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Posts: 2921

05-03-08 2:28 PM

Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb

About the only way they can make sure the stations drop the price is to make some type of public service announcement saying that the tax will be removed on "x" day and encourage people to report any station that does not drop their price. They might also try to discourage price increases within a certain amount of time the target date.

And no, I don't agree with dropping the taxes as it is only temporary and likely to result in minimal savings. Just answering a question on "how" they might go about doing it if they get stupid enough to do so.

It really sucks that, unless Obama changes his mind, Clinton and McCain will use it against him to paint him as not caring. He's got the correct answer, but it may cost him politically. (Someone go defib Fishbeak, as I'm certain he just had a heart attack given that I think Obama is right)

Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway.

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vizco

#17

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Posts: 3040

05-03-08 2:44 PM

Raid Peon

About the only way they can make sure the stations drop the price is to make some type of public service announcement saying that the tax will be removed on "x" day and encourage people to report any station that does not drop their price.

With due respect, that's ridiculous. Report to whom? The price of gas isn't controlled; stations can charge anything they want for it. Any station that doesn't cut its price if the gas tax was suspended would lose most of its customers to other stations.

Harmony of Souls : My Quiver
All this science I don't understand; it's just my job five days a week.

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Cinabre

#18

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Posts: 2921

05-03-08 6:22 PM

Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb

vizco wrote:

About the only way they can make sure the stations drop the price is to make some type of public service announcement saying that the tax will be removed on "x" day and encourage people to report any station that does not drop their price.
With due respect, that's ridiculous. Report to whom? The price of gas isn't controlled; stations can charge anything they want for it. Any station that doesn't cut its price if the gas tax was suspended would lose most of its customers to other stations.

Well, here in Georgia, we've had a few instances already where they broadcast that gas stations and hotels could not jack up their prices in order to gauge customers (think natural disasters, both in this state and others). People were given a telephone number to call if they thought that a business inflated prices. In a neighboring city, Albany, they ended up fining around nine businesses that changed the price of gas overnight much higher than others around them. Thanks to cellphones and credit card receipts, they had both picture and paper evidence of the price, before and after, which sealed the deal on the fines.

Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway.

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Muerta

#19

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Posts: 2583

05-04-08 5:41 AM

Legend in the making...
Oh and quite modest

invalid wife.

It is really sad that in*va*lid and in*val*id are spelled the same. I am going to assume you meant the first

My Life Summed Up on a Bumpersticker: Religion is for those who believe in Hell. Spirituality is for those who have already been there.

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Fogel of the Shrine

#20

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Posts: 74

05-04-08 11:25 AM

If the oil companies pass the savings on then it equates to the government temporarily pouring 9B into the economy. I don't remember this kind of negative response when it came to the tax refunds, and while this is far smaller in amount it is far more effective per cost in stimulating the economy as there is little additional cost to removing a tax(in comparison to the tax refunds).

What this is,
1. A small economic bump, for a small price.
2. Pandering
3. And in my opinion, if this is the entirety of their "solution", I would be very happy as often the more government does the worse it screws up the economy.

Fogel Dragoonspirit

- 65th Hunter of Unity -

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Fogel of the Shrine

#21

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Posts: 74

05-04-08 11:32 AM

Sorry for the double post, but I do want to add that there is very little outside of direct subsidies(which just shift the costs to interest laden debt) that the government can do to reduce the price of gasoline. Demand exceeds supply and the price of oil will continue to climb seeking the point demand = supply. OPEC acknowledged that oil is no where near its cap when it said it could see $200 oil before year's end. The only real way to reduce the price of oil is to either increase the supply or decrease the demand.

Fogel Dragoonspirit

- 65th Hunter of Unity -

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Klark

#22

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Posts: 808

05-05-08 9:38 AM

Cafu07 wrote:
I agree with Obama's position that the gas tax holiday is a political gimmick that will have almost no effect on the lives of most Americans. I also think it's kind of stupid to cut government funding when we are so far in debt already.

But instead you support Obama's plan for mid-class tax cuts of $1000 per family?

Sure, it's a short-term band-aid, but that's what band-aids are for (no, don't put a band-aid on that wound; let it bleed while we find a long-term solution). We need short-term as well as long-term solutions to help our economy. Obama's idea of tough love is a gimmick as well, or have you heard the kind of platitudes he is spreading?

But Senator Clinton wants to spend the money on this Washington gimmick that will save you $28 all summer. I want to invest that money in clean, affordable, renewable sources of energy like wind power, and solar power, and biofuels, so that we're not here talking about high gas prices next summer, and the summer after that, and five summers after that. That's the change we need.

Great idea, except no energy programs he puts into place will affect gas prices next summer. Every candidate is talking about investing in renewable energy sources, not just Obama. Of course the middle class tax breaks are going to reduce federal revenues (short-term) more than this gas tax holiday so he will have problems paying for his renewable energy research, but Obama won't address that.

The biggest problem with this gas tax holiday is what happens when the holiday is over? We, the American people, will bitch at moan when gas prices jump up 18 cents overnight. Before the politicians do something like this, they need to address that problem.

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Kayso Gnomehater

#23

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05-05-08 10:51 AM

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But instead you support Obama's plan for mid-class tax cuts of $1000 per family?

How do you know what parts of Obama's platform he supports?

And a 1000 tax cut per family can make sense in that context IF you're rolling back the cuts on corporations and people who make over 200K per year.

Great idea, except no energy programs he puts into place will affect gas prices next summer.

No policy anyone puts into place in January - March is likely to affect gas prices a few months later.

Of course the middle class tax breaks are going to reduce federal revenues (short-term) more than this gas tax holiday so he will have problems paying for his renewable energy research, but Obama won't address that.

He's addressed it. He just didn't spell it out for people who want to pick and choose points to isolate and attack. The net increase/decrease is all that matters -- not one specific cut. He's got some tax increases in there too.

We get it, you're not going to vote for Obama. Three more months and you'll be talking about what color tie he wears with what color suit. We get it. You don't need to make up 1,987 bullshit more reasons, you're going to do what you're going to do and those of us who like to stick to rational facts and issues don't give a shit about reasons 1,954 thru 2,018 on your list.

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Fishbeak

#24

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Posts: 2331

05-05-08 2:10 PM

With the exception of those with O.D.S. (my apologies to Boro wherever he may be) the gas tax gimmick is getting the beating it so deserves.

Was particularly funny to watch Clinton's former Sec. of Labor Robert Riech beat it like a rented mule on TV this morning as he announced he is supporting Obama - he's a super delegate.

Borofin's bitch

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Falkahnhan

#25

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Posts: 2625

05-05-08 7:39 PM

We get it, you're not going to vote for Obama. Three more months and you'll be talking about what color tie he wears with what color suit. We get it. You don't need to make up 1,987 bullshit more reasons, you're going to do what you're going to do and those of us who like to stick to rational facts and issues don't give a shit about reasons 1,954 thru 2,018 on your list.

Funny, I don't think you or any of the other Obama supporters are going to stop posting just because we all know you guys support Obama.

- Joe

I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which grants a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
- James Madison

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Physic FormerlyHasRez

#26

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Posts: 1430

05-05-08 7:52 PM

Was particularly funny to watch Clinton's former Sec. of Labor Robert Riech beat it like a rented mule on TV this morning as he announced he is supporting Obama - he's a super delegate.

/shrug i'd be shocked if somebody as socialist as riech said yes to reducing taxes in any form.

i dont see this as a red state issue. gasoline isn't crossing $4/gallon in most of iowa, its hitting the blue states the hardest. dominant causes are multiple layers of excise taxes and formulations required in places like california.

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Falkahnhan

#27

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