California will have a budget deficit of anywhere between $9-10 billion this year.
We have this because the geniuses in Sacremento forcasted way more revenue from property taxes this year than will actually be collected thanks to the housing
downturn.
The response to this is the state legislature, including Ahnold, calling for more taxes, cuts in education and other programs.
At the same time guess how much California spends to support illegal aliens? Give up?
About $9-10 billion dollars. Yet not a single person in Sacramento has the balls to call for cutting off aid to the illegals.
The California State Legislature and her Governor are trying to fleece the taxpayers of this state while continuing to support illegal immigration. We are
already one of the higher taxed states in the nation and now this.
FUCK you Ahnold!
I am really starting to think that moving back to the midwest is a good idea.
The official Prexus message board that won't sell out.
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 wardogadmin |
California Budget Crisis & Illegal Aliens |
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Posts: 88 04-01-08 1:35 PM Conservative Cultural Marxist |
Snaggs
Retired Druid of Prexus What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan |
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Physic FormerlyHasRez |
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Posts: 1430 04-01-08 4:06 PM |
if i remember correctly, a majority of kalifornia's budget is to support voter initiatives.
i dont see an easy way out for kalifornia given most of the budget is untouchable by the legislature. |
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Cinabre |
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Posts: 2917 04-01-08 4:27 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb |
California puts up with some really stupid stuff and wonders why they can't ever seem to meet a budget. Look how much the anti-war protests in Berkeley have cost that city. Want to exercise your right to free speech? Sure, but
provide your own security, trash removal, etc. It isn't just Berkeley that is having problems with overtime pay. I was reading a link yesterday
(can't find it atm) about some of the highest paid civil servants in California. When you have nurses, fireman and police making in excess of $200k a
year, mostly due to overtime, you've got problems.
I'll post more on this later. Need to find that article I was reading yesterday but my Google-fu is not well today due to this stupid sinus bug going around. Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway. |
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Cafu07 |
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Posts: 1869 04-01-08 4:29 PM |
Cities and states all over the country are going to be having budget deficits. It couldn't have anything to do with the economy so let's blame
Mexicans.
John McCain: He was against waterboarding before he was for it.
John McCain: He was for campaign finance reform before he ran for president. |
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 Gandol teh Pirate |
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Posts: 2264 04-01-08 4:31 PM Time-traveling
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The voter-initiative process on budgetary items is ridiculous. Everybody votes for stuff that sounds good and when they go to the polls, all too often none of
us has a handy Ross Perot-style chart to show us how we're mortgaging our fiscal positions into the red.
It's a terrible, terrible system and of course, there's the question of illegals. Do they represent more benefit in terms of business income via cheap labor than they expend in actual state benefit costs? I am skeptical that this is the case, but it shines a light (again) on the need for a guest worker program that puts tax dollars where they truly belong.
Borofin tells you:
Not you, jagoff... You are obviously lying in claiming ignorance of whom I was addressing. But lying is natural for you, isn't it? Go away you Bay area, anti-American leftist pos. |
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Gandol teh Pirate |
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Posts: 2264 04-01-08 4:33 PM Time-traveling
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Btw Physic, what's up with the lame spelling of California? Is the "k" supposed to imply something specific or clever?
Cafu raises a solid point. And Cin raises a lame point. Let's see, a couple hundred thousand dollars at most have been spent in protesting a war that should never have taken place that will cost America about $3 trillion. Boy, you nailed that one...not.
Borofin tells you:
Not you, jagoff... You are obviously lying in claiming ignorance of whom I was addressing. But lying is natural for you, isn't it? Go away you Bay area, anti-American leftist pos. |
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wardogadmin |
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Posts: 88 04-01-08 4:41 PM Conservative Cultural Marxist |
I really don't think he does.Cities and states all over the country are going to be having budget deficits. It couldn't have anything to do with the economy so let's blame Mexicans. Yes, there are going to be budget deficits all around this year thanks to the housing market downturn but without the money spent on services to illegal aliens there would be little if no deficit here in California compared to the 9-10 billion we have now. I don't blame the mexicans, I blame the politicians for supporting them with benifits and services that even citizens can't get.
Snaggs
Retired Druid of Prexus What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan |
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Cinabre |
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Posts: 2917 04-01-08 5:32 PM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: Wasted money is wasted money. Sorry you think it is lame that the folks in Berkeley are being screwed over by Code Pink. Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway. |
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Afmo |
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Posts: 2327 04-01-08 6:16 PM
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Btw Physic, what's up with the lame spelling of California? Is the "k" supposed to imply something specific or clever?
i've seen it done on another message board, usually like "the peoples republik of kalifornia" or "kommiefornia" and i've also heard it used as a spelling of how Arnold Schwarzenegger pronounces it (phonetically) Kah-lee-fo-nee-a...dunno if thats what he meant, but i've seen it before... |
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Kayso Gnomehater |
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Posts: 4567 04-01-08 6:47 PM BANNED |
I've got a great solution to all of California's problems... Get rid of all the Mexicans.
Real Estate prices are so low there already as compared to the rest of the country, why not just pay more for construction on top of those low land prices? And food is cheap there too. I'm sure we can find plenty of Californians would love to support their families picking fruit -- since their cost of living is so low. Behind the sarcasm is the fact that you have to consider ALL the factors concerning immigration legal and otherwise before pinning the blame for all the state's problems. How much do the blacks cost California in education, wellfare, crime, and medical expenses? I think they've got to go too. |
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Klark |
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Posts: 808 04-01-08 11:37 PM |
Kayso Gnomehater wrote: Impoverished US citizens are the burden of our society. Mexican citizens are the burden of Mexican's society.
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Kayso Gnomehater |
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Posts: 4567 04-02-08 1:41 AM BANNED |
One thing I am not for is the ludicrous practice of extending social benefits to non-citizens. Beyond the very basic in humanitarian/emergency services nothing
should be given unless there is a net savings to doing so.
Non-citizen workers should be her doing one of two things: 1. Working toward citizenship. 2. Filling a shortage in the labor force market and going home when that need is no longer there. |
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Gandol teh Pirate |
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Posts: 2264 04-02-08 4:01 AM Time-traveling
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Sorry you think it is lame that the folks in Berkeley are being screwed over by Code Pink.Down with that pesky 1st Amendment? It's the only Amendment that guarantees the protection of the all the others...
Borofin tells you:
Not you, jagoff... You are obviously lying in claiming ignorance of whom I was addressing. But lying is natural for you, isn't it? Go away you Bay area, anti-American leftist pos. |
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Ganders |
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Posts: 2409 04-02-08 4:02 AM |
Non-citizen workers should be her doing one of two things: 1. Working toward citizenship. 2. Filling a shortage in the labor force market and going home when that need is no longer there. Speaking as an occasional alien (although never a worker) on your shores, I feel it's important to point out there's a distinction between legal and illegal aliens. That labour force market should be bolstered by legal aliens. Is this $9b-$10b figure actually on programs targetted at illegal aliens, or is it some constructed cost of how much illegal aliens are thought to cost regular social programs? I don't see how any branch of government can legally run social programs which do anything for people within a country illegally other than detaining and deporting them.
I support indoctrination in the schools starting at kindergarten promoting homosexual parity and normality, environmental
catastrophism, white guilt, and American unexceptionalism
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Kayso Gnomehater |
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Posts: 4567 04-02-08 4:37 AM BANNED |
I agree, it should be bolstered by legal aliens. Meanwhile we have almost full employment and lots of shitty jobs going unfilled while people who want to come
here and work can get here legally. It's a problem.
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Cinabre |
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Posts: 2917 04-02-08 4:53 AM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: I've got no problem with Code Pink exercising their 1st Amendment. The problem is that, by doing so, they are forcing the city of Berkeley to provide police oversight for them which is running up quite an overtime bill. Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway. |
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Ganders |
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Posts: 2409 04-02-08 6:12 AM |
Then again, what's the alternative? Say that you have to pay the state if you want to exercise your 1st Amendment rights?
I support indoctrination in the schools starting at kindergarten promoting homosexual parity and normality, environmental
catastrophism, white guilt, and American unexceptionalism
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
#17 | ||||
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Posts: 4606 04-02-08 8:00 AM |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: A couple hundred thousand dollars is a big chunk of change for a city the size of Berkeley...and it means that some other service will not get funded as a
result.
Is this $9b-$10b figure actually on programs targetted at illegal aliens, or is it some constructed cost of how much illegal aliens are thought to cost regular social programs?Regular social programs. Illegal aliens cost California about 7.7 billion a year in education and another 1.4 billion for health care. Throw in another few hundred million for law enforcement and you have around 10 billion a year that wouldn't be spent if they weren't there. Then again, what's the alternative? Say that you have to pay the state if you want to exercise your 1st Amendment rights?If your first amendment exercise costs six figures to police and clean up after, then yes. peace, Aielman "Bush said that he now believes in Global warming...as a result...I'm not sure
anymore." - Lewis Black
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Cinabre |
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Posts: 2917 04-02-08 8:03 AM Big Blue Cat in Warrior Garb |
Ganders wrote: That wouldn't be setting much of a precedent if you look at what some cities have charged other groups, like the KKK, to hold rallies or protests. Included in the "fee" for some of those rallies have been charges for police overtime, emergency services (ambulance), sanitation, etc. I would bet that Berkeley would also normally include those fees, but didn't choose to do so when granting Code Pink special access. Many times in battle, one might lose their mind, their life, their soul. What makes them a Marine is that they entered combat knowing the price they might pay, and chose to enter it anyway. |
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ellocopato |
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Posts: 3782 04-02-08 8:45 AM
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found this read the other day. opinion piece about the illegal immigration affecting the budget:
http://www.sacbee.com/walters/story/822022.html on a cool note. google search on california budget crisis illegal you'll see this thread is #2 on the list :)
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Klark |
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Posts: 808 04-02-08 10:02 AM |
ellocopato wrote:The author uses the small side of old figures. There was an illegal alien surge after 1994. A revised estimate of the impact can be found here. I would like to see the author's sources on the taxes they pay because he stretches things just to excuse the illegals. The 1994 study does not match up with what the author uses:
Regardless of the uncertainties, the 1994 study found a substantial negative net fiscal impact. Illegal immigrants were estimated to pay between $465 million [ $609 million] (low estimate) and $1.07 billon [ $1.4 billion] (high estimate) in state taxes, versus $4.3 billion [ $5.6 billion] in program costs (including citizen children). Even using the study authors' upper bound estimate of potential taxes paid-which implied that illegal immigrants paid taxes at the same rate as the average Californian, a highly unlikely condition-illegal immigrants consumed roughly $5 in services for every dollar they paid in taxes. The author even misquotes the FAIR study. The report that the author cites actually says that the cost is $10.5B with a NET of about $9B. Analysis of the latest Census data indicates that California's illegal immigrant population is costing the state's taxpayers more than $10.5 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. Even if the estimated tax contributions of illegal immigrant workers are subtracted, net outlays still amount to nearly $9 billion per year. The annual fiscal burden from those three areas of state expenditures amounts to about $1,183 per household headed by a native-born resident. Repeated incorrect data pulled from reports tends to suggest that the author has an agenda and is deliberately twisting things around to lead the reader to
a false conclusion.
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Ersiusp |
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Posts: 2294 04-02-08 10:12 AM 1-900-Santa |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: Wouldn't that be the 2nd?
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wardogadmin |
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Posts: 88 04-02-08 10:19 AM Conservative Cultural Marxist |
Found this information about the impact of illegal immigration for California.
Snaggs
Retired Druid of Prexus What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan |
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Kayso Gnomehater |
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Posts: 4567 04-02-08 10:28 AM BANNED |
On the assembly issue. As I recall reading, the right for municipalities to require permits for assembly in certain situations has been either been upheld by
the SCotUS or they've elected not to hear cases challenging the rules (I forget which). The point is, if requiring permits to hold rallies doesn't
curtail speech, and I agree it doesn't, how is expecting the people who filed for the permit to be responsible for the mess their venue causes
unreasonable?
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Gandol teh Pirate |
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Posts: 2264 04-03-08 10:56 AM Time-traveling
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It's an interesting thing that people are complaining on behalf of the city of Berkeley and bemoaning the unfair fiscal burden associated with free speech
demonstrations when there's another, very recent thread on this very board which bitches at Berkeley's excessively liberal position regarding military
presence on a UC campus...
At any rate, the 1st Amendment wasn't set up to make things convenient for local, county, state, or federal government. It was set up to make things inconvenient for those governments so that the governments of the people are answerable to the people.
Borofin tells you:
Not you, jagoff... You are obviously lying in claiming ignorance of whom I was addressing. But lying is natural for you, isn't it? Go away you Bay area, anti-American leftist pos. |
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Aielman KajiraLiege |
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Posts: 4606 04-03-08 11:39 AM |
Gandol teh Pirate wrote: It also wasn't set up to make it convenient for you to trash the premisis or cause undo financial cost to the municipality, and ultimately the
taxpayers who may not agree with you, just so 10k of your friends can bitch about something either.
"Bush said that he now believes in Global warming...as a result...I'm not sure
anymore." - Lewis Black
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Gandol teh Pirate |
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Posts: 2264 04-03-08 4:46 PM Time-traveling
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It also wasn't set up to make it convenient for you to trash the premisis or cause undo financial cost to the municipality, and ultimately the taxpayers who may not agree with you, just so 10k of your friends can bitch about something either.Other than destruction of property, this is one of many precise reasons what it was set up. People, even those in the minority, have a constitutional right to have their voices heard and if it comes at the expense of the majority, tough shit. It's precisely what helps ensure majority-tyranny becomes a near impossibility.
Borofin tells you:
Not you, jagoff... You are obviously lying in claiming ignorance of whom I was addressing. But lying is natural for you, isn't it? Go away you Bay area, anti-American leftist pos. | ||||
