Eh, I'll post again once the playoffs are over this year. I really have no desire to argue with Maddie about this, but I would bet any amount of money that this move WILL NOT pay off for the Suns. The move was made for them to be able to beat two teams that they otherwise would not be able to beat - San Antonio and Los Angeles. Now, they may struggle against some other teams (New Orleans, for instance), but this trade does not help them against those squads.

Also, something that I don't think has been brought up yet is this - who's going to defend Tony Parker now when the Spurs play the Suns? Steve Nash? Ouch. That would hurt. Can't be Raja Bell, since he has to defend Ginobili. Marion was an All-NBA caliber defender, while Hill would be a liability against either one of those players.

Same thing happens when the Suns play the Lakers. Who defends Odom? Hill? Odom was able to post up Marion in the playoffs the last two years - do you really think that Hill would have more success?

Now, don't get me wrong - I DO agree that the Suns needed to make a trade. I DO agree that they needed to get bigger. However, I don't think that making this trade is the best move for them.

Maligzar wrote:
What Jeffs really means is that he'll post again to gloat assuming the move doesn't work out, but if the Suns get to the finals, or worse if they beat the Lakers in one of the conference rounds; we'll never hear from him again.

Suit yourself, Maddie. The fact that I stopped posting here had a lot more to do with the fact that I stopped playing EQ (and all MMOs in general) than the fact that I was frustrated with the Lakers. There are other sites that I post on that have some very knowledgeable fans, and a lot of connections that I don't have access to. Remember how I knew Phil Jackson was coming back to coach the Lakers six months before it happened? Well, these people knew about the Ariza and Gasol trades long before anything had been whispered to the media. Even beyond that, I just enjoy debating with them more than I do with you guys. No offense, but they don't go out of their way to try and incite me.

I know there's really no way to enforce this over the internet, but if you'd like to wager some money on which team goes further in the playoffs either this year or next, I'd be more than willing to do that. Let me know.

This trade is like poker, the Suns went all in. This either gives us that championship or it blows up in our face.

I like the analogy, so I'll run with it. There are quite a few ways to go all in. One way is to go all in with a flush draw and overs on the flop, giving you great odds on your money; another way is to push all your chips into the middle with a gutshot on the turn, being an 11:1 dog. I'd make the argument that, based on Shaq's poor performance in the playoffs the past two years (yes, Finals included) and the fact that he has declined rapidly since then, the Suns went all in far too late, and with a poor draw to boot.

Sure Cafu I know the history. I'm just telling you what the Suns are expecting him to come and do and what he's talked about doing. I didn't follow him much after Miami stole him from the Lakers; but I am pretty sure back then he was a necessary offensive piece. We don't need Shaq to score a single bucket and he knows it.

Why didn't you just trade for Alonzo Mourning, then? No, seriously. Yeah, he's injured, but he looked healthier than Shaq while he was playing. If he decides to return next year, I think he'd be a more valuable piece to the Suns than Shaq will. Honestly, one could argue that Mourning was more valuable to the Heat Championship run than Shaq was.

In any case, regardless of whether you need Shaq to score or not, I really hope you don't expect him to play good defense. Rebound? Maybe. MAYBE. But play defense? Get outta here! The guy has historically been bad at the pick and roll, and he has become even worse at it now that he has lost a lot of his athletic ability. The fact that his knees appear to be shot doesn't help his case either. Beyond that, though, he has turned into a very poor man defender. He may be able to defend post-up bigs that are significantly smaller than him, but he isn't going to be able to do a thing against Duncan or Bynum. Bynum is so long that Shaq won't be able to bother his shot one bit unless he jumps (which I haven't seen him do all year), while Duncan will just abuse Shaq in every single way known to man.

That's not to say Robert Sarver or the Suns got one pulled over on them, or if we win a title that Riley will be seen as wrong. Nope. I think Riley figured out that Shaq really could help the Suns, and knew Shawn Marion was available. Riley knew that Miami needed to rebuild and it's going to be a lot easier with a guy like Marion. I think this is a fantastic trade. (unlike the Laker's and their theft of Pao Gasol!)

Let's be real about something. Riley didn't really give two shits how Shaq would fit in on the Suns. He was fed up with Shaq and wanted him gone; even moreso, he wanted Shaq's $60M salary for the next three years to get as far away from him as possible.He succeeded.

Riley actually wasn't planning on trading Shaq to Phoenix at all. He had been in talks with Dallas about potentially moving Shaq to the Mavs for one of their guards and a S&T Keith Van Horn (they would do this similarly to how the Lakers S&T'd McKie just to make the trade legal; KVH would get a nice big payday, but likely not play a single game). Phoenix got wind of this and panicked. Not only would the Lakers and Spurs be too big for Phoenix, but the Mavs would as well. This was as much a preventative move as it was a move to help the Suns compete in the West. They knew that if their three biggest rivals all improved and they stayed pat, they would be in big trouble.

In either case, kudos to Pat Riley. He made Brian Grant's salary disappear. He somehow moved Antoine Walker when it seemed like doing so would be impossible. Now he has moved the albatross contract of Shaquille O'Neal. The guy truly is a genius.